Casual use of the word “rape” in gaming
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Warning: This post contains adult language.
I will probably leave my guild over this issue. Someone used the word “rape” in guild chat today in reference to wanting to PvP against Alliance. I told him I wouldn’t tolerate that word. He said, “Geez, what’s the big deal, calm down.” I said, “It has happened to me, so I don’t find the word funny or casual. And don’t tell me to calm down, asshole.” He basically said, “Whatever,” and never apologized.
So I told the Guild Master. I felt at least I deserved an apology. (Keep in mind that this guild member is still temporary — he hasn’t been fully accepted as a member.) The GM didn’t like the guildie in particular but he defended his use of the word. “It’s very common and it’s tolerated all over WoW.” WTF?? No, it’s NOT tolerated. I asked him if people used the “N” word would he say anything to them? He said, “Personally, the word does not offend me so it wouldn’t bother me.” I said, “I make a habit of standing up for things that are right regardless of whether someone’s watching me or not.” His essential reaction was a shrug. I’m so upset that I will probably transfer Slig off the server today, not even bother to /gquit.
WTF is going on with gaming? Is it like the last stupid bastion of the Little Asshole Boys Club?? I write a post condemning domestic violence on WoW Insider and I get PASTED and some people even defend wife-beating!!?? Now I stand up against a word that should never be used lightly and *I* get lectured for being offended??? What the hell is this, the freakin’ Stone Age? AR AR ME MAN YOU WOMAN ME PULL HAIR LAUGH LOTS AND USE MY PARTS IN YOU AGAINST YOUR WILL. Are gaming men really that freaking insecure? That they have to create a little bubble around themselves so they can make gay jokes and racist jokes and jokes about violating women?
And it’s not like there aren’t any women in my guild. Most of them are wives of other players. Why are THEY not standing up against this kind of bullshit?
I should probably have waited until I calmed down to write a nice, thoughtful post on this issue. But I was far too angry to wait. Oh my gosh, I’m so angry that I’m shaking with rage. Why are gaming women tolerating this boysclub bullshit??
Isn’t misogyny a wonderful thing? As a result of offensive comments directed at me, I’m closing comments on this post. Wanna say something? Get your own blog.
October 18, 2008 at 1:47 pm
I too hate it. I can’t understand how anyone tolerates it, man or woman. I don’t think you will find any difference on other servers except maybe role playing, where the players are a bit more active and perhaps mature. If you can stand role playing, which many can’t. I have taken to just /ignoring offensive people. I can’t make others do squat but I can be picky about who I sell, trade, group or play with. If they are on ignore list there is good reason. I only wish we had more slots to ignore more people.
Not all gaming men are jerks. Many immature gammers are tards.
October 18, 2008 at 2:20 pm
Natalie: Not to be an apologist, but it might be an age/maturity issue more than boys v. girls. Maybe players our age have a better view of it. People need to be more sensitive to words and their meanings, and not use them casually like that.
That said, @Joshua, the word “tard” is also offensive, and should not be used casually either. I understand your meaning, but perhaps “stupid” or “ignorant” would have been a better choice of words.
October 18, 2008 at 2:58 pm
I hate seeing people using that word so recklessly, I totally get where you’re coming from Hun.
October 18, 2008 at 3:02 pm
I think most people just don’t think. It doesn’t occur to them to think about what they are saying until something or someone brings the seriousness of the matter to the forefront for them.
I hope that your discussions with your guild and your subsequent actions do make some of them, at least, think about these things. And I know that your blog and Insider posts do.
October 18, 2008 at 3:40 pm
@Steven Right you are. Didn’t even think of its origin!
October 18, 2008 at 3:46 pm
I agree completely. I would love to know what happened to the days of ‘we flogged them’ or ‘they kicked our butts’. Words with such terrible meanings should never be used as euphemisms for anything, nor should those euphemisms be an acceptable part of everyday conversation.
When something is offensive to somebody, it does not matter whether the person saying it thinks it is fine or not. If it offends someone, it simply should not be said again.
October 18, 2008 at 4:44 pm
I think the most offensive part is the unwillingness to apologize. At the risk of over-generalizing, I think *everyone* has something in their personal lexicon that would be offensive to *someone*. The problems arise when (a) you’re not self-aware enough to realize this and thereby ratchet down your language until you better know the people you’re talking to and (b) you’re too pampered to accept the fact that you might have done something wrong.
(Just for the record, I don’t *think* I could use the word “rape” this way and feel okay with myself — but I’m having to think about it.)
bkd
October 18, 2008 at 5:03 pm
My main problems were twofold: (1) The guy did not apologize and the GM did not require that he apologize. Even from a purely “guild management” point of view it makes no sense to create divisiveness — especially when one person (me) is a high ranking member and the other an initiate not even fully accepted into the guild. (2) The GM clearly had a policy of not caring about language the way I did so it said to me that the guild & I were not a good fit. Well, that and the fact that misogyny seems to permeate gaming despite the fact that it’s 2008.
October 18, 2008 at 5:50 pm
The problem is due first to the anonymous nature of the internet which tends to bring the worst out of certain people. Then there’s the political climate around the US elections spilling over into pretty much the rest of the world, where sexism has run rampant and unopposed throughout the entire year.
Doesn’t help.
That being said, the link to the wowinsider comment thread was a wonderful reminder why I stopped visiting and shouldn’t visit again. WoWI’s comment thread are the blogosphere equivalent of the O-boards.
October 18, 2008 at 7:03 pm
Thank you for writing this. I cannot believe that your GM would take such a spineless position on this — if I ran any kind of organization and someone came to me with a problem, I’d make sure it got settled, not just shrug my shoulders and move on, particularly when it’s something where one party is is obviously in the right and it’s such a simple fix (i.e., tell the new guy to either apologize and watch his mouth or gtfo).
I really hope things get settled with your guild, but if they don’t, there are plenty of good realms out there — I’m sure you will find somewhere. I second the suggestion to check out RP servers; most of them do have a more mature player base and very few require constant role-playing, if that’s not your thing, as long as you aren’t griefing the RPers.
Sorry you had to go through this at all, though. That’s a pretty high level of B.S.
October 18, 2008 at 7:05 pm
I would kind of poke around the official forums (because whoever’s loudest there will be loudest in game, too) and make an alt to check out any new server if you do choose transferring, though. That way, you can at least ask around about the community before you make the change — don’t want to jump from your home server to somewhere worse.
October 18, 2008 at 9:37 pm
I’ve always hated the casual use of that word and, like you, gotten into arguments with people over it. Gotten the same reactions too. I have absolutely no problems leaving a group or a guild over that attitude, and I’m relieved to find I’m not the only one who would do that.
It does always send a bit of a creepy chill down my spine every time I hear some young kid talk like that. Who are they going to grow up to be? And how far are they going to take that attitude? Ugh.
I’ll keep my fingers crossed for you that you have better luck with a new guild/server.
October 19, 2008 at 3:28 pm
Just a quick note of support, as well. It’s an unfortunate side effect of a (semi) anonymous environment where people think they can say something they would never say at work or in a social setting. That no apology or even empathy was forthcoming was just crap. There’s plenty of people running around in-game that feel the same way you do. Thank you for speaking up. Best wishes with your new adventures and, hopefully, a new great guild.
-Fri
October 20, 2008 at 1:41 am
Completely agree with you on the use of words like that. The GM should have done something, especially if it was a temporary member.
The whole problem is that we are becoming desensitized to all of this. Maybe it’s because of how sheltered we are as children now, I don’t know. But it seems like the things that people should be offended at they aren’t, and things they shouldn’t even care about they get offended if you don’t agree with them.
I will say, that probably half to 75% of all the nonsense that goes on in WoW and on the internet is teenagers who don’t realize that there are other people on the other side of the screen. And I agree, WoW Insider’s comments have gotten WAY out of hand, just as bad as the official WoW forums have.
October 20, 2008 at 6:28 am
[...] of rants – GameDame has an excellent one, and one I’m not sure I’ve adequately responded to. The best rants are the ones that [...]
October 20, 2008 at 7:13 am
Behind you all the way on this.
October 20, 2008 at 8:07 am
Gm should’ve, at the least, reminded the temp member that he should be on his BEST behaviour while an applicant.
and that’s the LEAST. I’d have /gkicked the little jerk. But I tend to over react.
October 20, 2008 at 8:16 am
Hi Dame,
). I am considering myself starting a blog, just to had some positive thought on this great game.
I got this link from Too many Anna’s. I started reading wow blogs only 2-3 months ago, so I’m new at this and don’t know who is who. Aside from that, I find very nice that people blog and express their opinion, it is a good communication tool, and it is a good way to express oneself. I’ll add to that, that it is my first time that I reply to a blog (first time on your blog, and my forst time ever reply
* 1st, you can’t be more right. Quoting Patch Adams, doing the right thing is almost the most difficult thing to do.
* I’ve been playing since almost 2 years now, and am still amazed at how people can be so disrespectful and rude on this game.
* Finding a good guild is difficult. From what I read, your GM is new at this, /gquit may not be the right thing, you may want a new GM, if you have great officers and players in your guild. At the same time, the offensive players, should have definitely apologized, and your GM should have briefly asked him to apologized, and within few seconds of a refusal from him, I would have kicked him so far out of the guild, that he would be still flying by now…
* very serious topic, and thank you for bringing it up.
* you need to play with people that share the same values as you, and that enjoy playing with you, and you with them. It takes time, but keep looking.
* my wife and I are at our 3rd raiding guild right now, we’ve been in this one only 2 months by now, and at first, I thought it would never work, but suddenly, I am finding more and more good players. We are working with them to try to improve the guild, and it is a constant challenge (we have no some serious issues from time to time, but our 2 co-GM have a no bs approach, so if need be, /gkick, very fast.
* we could talk on this for long, but I have to go. Do not post this reply, It was intended for you only, and hopefully, just to give you hope. Keep smiling. Azzurro.
October 20, 2008 at 9:44 am
It’s used way too lightly. Thankfully, the only place it’s used in our guild is on wave 6 of the 4th boss in MH. If it starts getting applied to people, I will definitely say something. And I think that the guild will respond to that – we’re a fairly mature bunch of gamers (most of the time). But still….. I don’t like hearing it.
October 20, 2008 at 9:56 am
I have run across this a time or too as well, not just with the term you mention but others as well.
When my daughter makes a silly mistake and gets called a tard by some a-hole it gets under my skin. True they don’t know that she actually is handicapped. The fact is she is hiding from people like them by playing Wow. That it makes me quite upset would be a bit of an understatement.
Leaving guild is certainly appropriate in this case, in fact after the GL’s mishadling of it there is no way I could bring myself to stay. Had I been the GL he would have been booted after being told why in open Gchat. No excuses.
One thing I would do first is post either on guild forums or in Gchat your reasons for leaving. You never know, someone might read it and think before they talk next time.
October 20, 2008 at 10:00 am
There are often times I hear these kinds of things in game, very rarely do I pipe up because the times I have it’s not turned out well and suddenly I get labeled a “whiny” girl. I did say something when someone made negative comments about gay people the other day… it didn’t go on very long before I was just like “ya know, this conversation isn’t going anywhere, you don’t have to agree with my opinion but you can’t blatantly say anything homophobic”. He was pretty cool about it and agreed.
I still feel a bit of shame/regret that I didn’t say something when a fellow tank made a joke up about feeling up a female officer in our tank channel… she found out anyway though and he apologized on the forums to her… he was planning on coming back to raiding but I haven’t seen him online since.
October 20, 2008 at 10:13 am
Wow.. it really sucks when this stuff happens. You are always welcome over on Draenor if you do choose to leave
October 20, 2008 at 10:13 am
I’m in a fairly mature guild (well, we have age requirements), but even so, being in a raid is very much like being in a locker room. There’s a joke nearly every run when someone mentions the “back door” of Karazhan (*sigh* maybe funny the first ten times?), lots of innuendo and “that’s what she said,” and frequent accusations of guys being gay and so forth. What sucks is that I know that last behavior has driven off at least two folks that were fun to play with that also happened to be gay or bisexual. Aside from that, I can roll with most of it.
We hadn’t had anyone toss around the word “rape” until very recently. It’s only happened a couple times when I’ve been in chat, but I absolutely hate it. If it becomes a regular thing, I’ll have to say something about it to our GM (who hasn’t heard anyone say it, as far as I know). I really don’t want to quit the guild and I don’t want to quit raiding with these people, but more than anything, I don’t want our guild to become a place where that kind of garbage is acceptable.
I can’t believe your GM there said it was common and tolerated. Ridiculous. And even if it were, that doesn’t mean it’s right. I can be cool with the innuendo and other silly stuff, but rape is nothing to joke about. I’d gquit, too, if the GM condoned use of the word.
October 20, 2008 at 10:15 am
Hmm.. Wait.. You are Horde, aren’t you…
October 20, 2008 at 10:52 am
I agree with the fact that no one should be using “Rape” in reference to beating another faction. There are many other words that can be used that are very acceptable for this activity. Yes I hate the alliance in game, but I hate it when ignorant asshats defame people with unacceptable words.
October 20, 2008 at 12:55 pm
As much as I hate the type of person that would use the word “rape” that casually (I, personally, wouldn’t associate with someone like this), you can’t force them to apologize or really feel that surprised that they don’t. As much as it sucks, words are just words, even if they’re homophobic, misogynist, or racist.
Honestly, I’d feel bad if little turds like these who throw around the word “rape,” “fags,” and “nigger” so casually were actually made to stop — this type of behavior is a VERY useful way to instantly tell that someone’s not worth associating with.
What you do is cut off contact with someone like that, and you’re doing the right thing by leaving that guild/server. Of course, make sure and use the language filter, and if Blizzard hasn’t included the word “rape” in their filter, then there needs to be a petition set up to get them to add it.
October 20, 2008 at 2:19 pm
My history in WOW, the first 2 years of it at least were in a guild that prided itself as being G-rated, and a place I would not be ashamed to be in charge of. Sadly, with the departure of some old leaders and the advent of some new ones, the rules were lost along the way, and only a few old-school members would stick up for it. When things like “rape” entered the guild lexicon, I left the guild.
I firmly believe that it doesn’t hurt me NOT to say that word, but it may hurt someone else if I do say it, so Why say it?
October 20, 2008 at 3:00 pm
All I can say is DAMN STRAIGHT.
I’m very non-confrontational by nature so I almost never say anything when people talk about “raping their opposition” or make sexist/racist/homophobic jokes, for the sake of preserving tranquility, or because I’m too timid to risk the insults that would come back to me.
But, it occurs to me this may be WHY these immature individuals get away with it. Silence is as good as condoning from their point of view. So, in the future, I don’t think I’m going to let it slide. As you said the internet is an anonymous place- so why on earth should I fear retribution for standing up for what’s right? What works for them can work for me.
October 20, 2008 at 8:52 pm
The problem comes largely from a group of people who are growing up with parents that don’t teach them what is appropriate, and what isn’t.
It really is a maturity issue. While the people in my guild wouldn’t necessarily take offense to the word being used, had you mentioned it to one of them, they would have at least said, “I wasn’t aware that it offended you – I apologize.” If they didn’t, our GM would have called them out on it (or at least I hope he would have).
It sucks that it happened, and it sucks that it resulted in what it did. I guess that’s why I’m glad I’m guilded with people I’ve known across many games, rather than just lumped into a guild with them without knowing who they are.
I hope you find a better place wherever you end up, GameDame.
October 22, 2008 at 5:41 am
I totally understand where you are coming from. I can’t stand the casual use of words that have hurtful or negative impact on others.
I used to be a guild master and I kept the standards high in terms of language. We had a tight knit guild until folks started getting greedy. Former members still talk about how they wish that guild was still in existence.
My point being, there are ways to get appropriate social structure in the guild. I’d rather have ten good people than thirty ignorant ones, and I don’t mean good as in playing the game. I’ve insta-kicked folks for disrespect, simply because when they got a warning they couldn’t understand the why behind it.
The person that said that should have apologized to you. His behavior is a reflection on his upbringing. The GM should have made the person apologize. Just because certain behavior is accepted in certain “social” settings doesn’t make it right.
You find a guild that has these sort of standards, let me know. I’d rather be in a guild that respects each other that never clears Kara than a super guild that doesn’t know how to be respectful to each other.
October 22, 2008 at 5:47 am
@Lilivati
Good for you. Nobody should let this kind of behavior go on.
“All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.” (Edmund Burke)
That quote may seem extreme, but I think it pretty much applies.
As a guy I know once said. “If you can’t change the people your around, then change the people you’re around.”
October 22, 2008 at 10:54 pm
I’m with you GameDame. I cringe on the odd occassion I see it in-game. There is no legitimate excuse for using it.
GM should have warned the user and kicked them if they used it again.
October 25, 2008 at 7:27 pm
He would have been warned in our guild and booted the second time. That’s bullshit and your GM sucks. The standard isn’t what would offend your GM. Is he king of the world? You should leave and find a more woman-friendly environment.
October 27, 2008 at 12:37 am
It is uplifting to read a post like this, together with all the comments agreeing. I am glad that there are others that react the same way I do. At times the insensitive and careless use of language in the game gets to me. Battlegrounds are the worst, and there I find it to be rather pointless to comment because of all the flaming I get in return (more anonymity in battlegroups i guess). In general city chat I usually comment that type of language, which mostly results in an endless argument involving a bunch of péople that quickly degrades into personal insults. As an officer in my guild however, we manage to keep a civilized tone – it helps to have a leader base of people that are a little older and several with families. Of course, recruting can sometimes result in getting unwanted elements, but for us it is a self-cleaning process. That type of player never fits in, and usually gquits or gets kicked soon enough. I can only hope for you to find a guild that shares your values, so that the game can for you what it should be – a fun and enjoyable way to spend your spare time.